Ooh, rock me Lord Tyrannus!

Posted: 13 January, 2010 in Dungeons, misc, Wrath of the Lich King

Over the Christmas Holidays I spent an awful lot of time playing WoW. I’m not a massive fan of chasing achievements for their own sake, but when you’re running a random daily and a weekly raid quest on 10 different level 80 characters, some achievements just sort of happen whether you’re shooting for them or not. It was while running these “old” level 80 dungeons (and a few even older raid instances) that it was made abundantly clear to me just how stupidly overpowered we all are these days.

Example time. One achievement I am chasing is the 40 Exalted Reputations for the title “The Exalted”. 37 down, 3 to go. Already Revered with the Ashen Verdict, I figure I’ll get Exalted sooner rather than later. Revered with Ogri’la and working on it whenever I can be bothered. Oh, what’s this? Revered with the Hyrdaxian Waterlords? I was a little late to the party at level 60 and we’d moved on to Blackwing Lair before I hit Exalted with the Hydraxians, so whenever the urge took me I’d been running back to Molten Core and facerolling all over the bosses in there to grind out the last few thousand rep I needed (after Revered you only get rep from bosses, and at 20999 rep
you need to kill Executus or Ragnaros himself for the last point. Bah!). Now you have to bear in mind that Ragnaros, the last boss, was a step up from the regular bosses in Molten Core, he dropped Tier 2 loot, not Tier 1 loot, after all. The fight required two tanks (because he knocked back one of them and started one-shotting people if there was no other tank to pick him up) and a broad mix of dps with healers mixed in to burn him down and cover the aoe damage he kicked out. If you were really, really, REALLY good, you’d get him down before he submerged, because if not he’d summon the Sons of Ragnaros and swarms of Fire Elementals would emerge and start eating everyone. You needed to gather them up and get rid of them fast, because Ragnaros would re-emerge soon and need to be tanked again. It was a simple fight that went to hell very fast if you didn’t keep up. Bear in mind a few things. To get Ragnaros down before his Sons emerged, you need 40 raiders at the top of their game, pushing out some serious dps.

Or one level 80 Arcane mage, one tank and a very bored healer. You could actually probably skip the healer.

Ok, so Ragnaros might be 40 man raid content but he’s level sixty 40 man raid content. I get that. It’s only 20 levels but I get it. How about something a bit more recent?

Less-Rabi seems to be the achievement that most people get stuck on when grinding out the meta-achievement for their Red Protodrake. It certainly seems to be the most popular one in trade chat anyway. People always want an Enhancement Shaman for the Reverberation talent which gives them an interrupt on a 5 second cooldown and yes, I can see why that would make sense. The boss will periodically try to transform into a Mammoth, and to win the achievement you have to ensure he doesn’t. The problem is that every time he starts the transform it gets cast faster and faster, until by the 4th cast it’s very, very hard to interrupt it in time, hence you take an Enhancement Shaman with Reverberation.

Except, you don’t need one. Not at all. You just need an average group of tier 9-geared players and the stupid amounts of dps they push out. Last week I joined a random on Shinano, my resto druid. We got Gundrak, came to Moorabi and the tank, a paladin, asked if I had a dps offspec. “Sure” I replied, “I’ve got a reasonably well-geared Feral Cat offspec”. So I switched to Cat and we nuked the boss down before he even got to try his third cast, let alone his fourth. Healing? Pfft. Judgement of Light and Leader of the Pack did more than enough healing. This is not level 60 content. This is level 80 content. It’s level 80 heroic content. Healer optional, dps preferred.

Sheesh.

Some of the other so-called “achievements” aren’t even remotely worthy of the name any more. When Wrath of the Lich king was but a wee babe in arms, Loken in Heroic Halls of Lightning had killed more players than any other level 80 dungeon or raid boss. He’d killed more players than the rest of the top 5 combined! There is an achievement for killing him in less than a minute and I can remember the sense of victory we felt the first time we did it, not because we were trying to get the achievement, we were just trying to kill the big bastard before he killed us! Actually, I wasn’t the first person in my guild to get the achievement, and I can clearly remember seeing it pop up in guild chat and sitting there in awe of the dps that managed put Loken on his arse in less than a minute and the healer who managed to keep the group up throughout it, because in order to do it, you pretty much had to stay in and eat his Lightning Novas. These days my best Loken kill is either 18 or 28 seconds, not sure which. No big deal though. Loken is a cakewalk. You fire up your Mirror Images, blow Arcane Power and Icy veins and spam Arcane Blast. Depending on your buffs and crits, that’s 20-24k damage every 1.5 seconds. Any dungeon boss is usually face down and pushing up daisies before the Mirror Images expire. These days if you see a “kill a boss in under a minute” achievement pop up you’re not thinking “awesome!”, you’re thinking “noob!”

Some more random facts for you.
Calli, my mage, now has more health in a dungeon than Gorn, my Warrior tank, did when he started tanking heroics.
Jingles has so much spirit on his gear that Fel Armour grants him over 400 bonus spell power, more when raidbuffed.
Calli didn’t even have 400 spell power in raids at level 60, and Jingles, an alt, has more than that as a bonus.
The big dps check at level 70 was Brutallus in Sunwell Plateau. On average, your dps had to be pushing out at least 1500dps each to have a hope of downing him. Sunwell Plateau, let me remind you, was the pinnacle of bastard-hard raid content. These days, a mere ten levels later, you can do at least that much dps in quest rewards. Calli does 9000dps on dungeon bosses, and has nudged 14000 dps on certain raid bosses, almost the equivalent of 10 superbly well-geared level 70 raiders. She’s not even the best mage in our raid group.

Of course, there’s some old content I wouldn’t dream of pugging, even in Tier 10 gear. Twin Emperors in The Temple of Ahn’qiraj leaps to mind, as does Kil’jaeden in Sunwell Plateau. Some fights still have mechanics that will knock you flat on your arse if you try to faceroll your way through, gear will only take you so far.

So where does that leave us? Icecrown Citadel 5 man dungeons, that’s where. I’ve complained in the past that the gear requirements for them, Halls of Reflection in particular, were ridiculous. I’ve played through them with some ridiculously well-geared and competent raiders, players who in no way needed any of the loot that dropped from them, and gotten roflstomped by the trash.

Now you can ascribe this to a lot of things. I ascribe it to the sad fact that due to all of the reasons listed above, people no longer respect 5 man dungeons and if you treat the Forge of Souls, Pit of Saron and Halls of Reflection like another Nexus badge-farming snoozefest you are pretty soon going to find out who’s never made their way manually to the instance before and can’t find the entrance while in spirit form. This is why a tank with 45k health buffed, a healer with Heroic 25 man Coliseum gear and the Legendary healing mace and 3 dps all capable of soloing Loken from 100% to nil in 30 seconds are getting kerbstomped by waves of trash. People in level 258 gear should not be faceplanting in any instance that drops 232 gear. But you WILL faceplant in these places if you go in there treating them with the same level of contempt reserved for the likes of Loken and Cyanigosa.

You can ignore the tank target and nuke whoever you like in Violet Hold and get away with it. You can AoE packs of Dragonkin down in the Nexus and live to tell the tale. The tank usually won’t even notice and the mobs certainly won’t. Selective targetting and crowd control are simply not needed most of the time, unless the tank either a) sucks b) is massively undergeared compared to the dps or c) the dps are just being collossal pricks. Wait a minute.. crowd control? Selective targetting? What are they? Well usually crowd control is what the mage or the priest try to do just before the Rogue spams Fan of Knives and the Warrior pops Bladestorm. Selective targetting is what everyone ignores right after the tank marks the target. Seriously, I regularly tank instances where the one with the skull on its head is the last one to die. No shit. Wait, who am I trying to convince, you must see it all the time yourselves.

Yes, selective targetting and crowd control! Remember those? I know level 60 was a long time ago for some of us, but please, try to remember the skills you learned in Upper Blackrock Spire or even Magisters Terrace because you’ll need them in Icecrown. You can still faceroll to an extent in The Forge and Pit if sufficiently overgeared, but the vast majority of people in those instances don’t have loot accounts at the Royal Bank of The 25 Man Heroic Coliseum and using stuff like Repentance and Shackle Undead to even the odds in your favour on the slope up to the Ice Tunnel in the Pit are completely alien concepts to the majority of people. Why? Because with the lone exception of Magisters Terrace at level 70, no-one has needed to use them since Upper Blackrock Spire required a key to get in and Rend Blackhand was considered badass. Go on, how many of you had to look up Blackhand on Wowhead? Yeah, it really has been that long.

This is why I love Forge of Souls, Pit of Saron and Halls of Reflection. They’re the only instances you can’t autopilot through and the only ones I feel a geniune sense of foreboding for when I see their loading screens. Of course I’m talking about when I’m doing the random daily on Calli or another dps character for Badges of Frost. They’re also the reason I never queue on Gorn or Sithica as a tank unless I’ve got a pre-made guild group. They’re fun for all the family if you’re on a healer, though. Hands up any healer who’s never placed mental bets as to which smacktard dps is NOT going to run out on Krick and Ick’s poison nova? Or which one is going to kill themselves on Scourgelord Tyrannus when they have Overlords Bane?

No, it’s not always the Deathknight. Sometimes it’s a Deathknight on his Rogue alt.

And if anyone catches the reference in the title you’re far too old to be playing silly videogames!

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Comments
  1. repgrind says:

    >.>
    <.<

    Thanks, now I'm old AND I have that song stuck in my head all day.

  2. Kurnak says:

    Maybe was true the first weeks, but right now I feel FoS can be almost autopiloted if there’s enough people with some decent gear. PoS starts to be also, on bosses like garfrost not all hide behind the saronite. Only HoR remains as still tough, but this will change soon I think.

  3. Crofe says:

    I really hope 23 isn’t “old”…

    And it’s probably worse that I got it before you even mentioned that it needed to be gotten.

  4. Jujee says:

    Good thing achievements come with date stamps. Currently trying to finish the quests in old continents and /yawn. Keep thinking why the hell am I doing this for 30-40 achievements points and some hideous tabard, but for absurd reasons that Blizzard is capitalising on, I continue with the drudgery.

    The three new 5-man instances, specifically heroic HoR is almost impossible to complete with pugs. I don’t know why Blizzard is letting through people in blue gear (oh and 2 charity epics). There’s a rare chance of having a pug with decent tank who can aoe tank, a healer who understands the role of healing and when to use specific types of heals, and dps who can demonstrate more than 2k dps and stand outside of the deadly flamestrike. Think the ignorant noobs and ADHD children commonly encoutered in easy mode random heroics and having them in H HoR. The result is costly and ludicrous.

    • Calli says:

      I’ve done Heroic HoR many times on dps characters, never on a tank and twice as a healer. The first time I tried to heal it was on my shaman, who’s no slouch in the healing department. She has the “I’ve Gone And Made A Mess (10 Man)” achievement for Deathbringer Saurfang, has gear with an average item level of 232 or better, 3k spellpower and silly amounts of mana regen. The tank was on 44k health buffed and the dps were all 25 man Icecrown Raiders.

      We got kerbstomped. It was absolutely brutal. It just wasn’t possible to keep the tank and all the dps up at the same time. I was pumping out 4k hps and almost none of it was overheal and it just wasn’t enough. This is what happens if you approach Halls of Reflection with the same faceroll mentality as other heroics. Since last weeks’ nerf it’s now possible to gather everything up and AoE tank if you outgear the place, but life is made SO much more simple if you just use those CC abilities you’ve not bothered with since Magister’s Terrace.

      By contrast I ended up zoning in to Heroic Halls last week on my Druid, Shinano. Immediately the tank (38K health buffed) admitted that he wasn’t sure he could tank the place. I confessed straight up that I’d never healed it successfully and never even been there as a healer on my druid. The group decided to give it a go anyway. Admittedly having a druid to heal is probably the best healer choice you can have as we can not only keep everyone healed while running out of Flamestrikes but we can cleanse the Mercenary’s poison and remove the Curse from the Rifleman too, but my simply being a druid was a minor factor in our success. The Hunter laying freezing traps for the ranged adds was a major factor, as was the Ret Paladin putting Repentance on the most dangerous mobs before they got within aoe tank ability range. Suddenly I was only having to deal with 60% of the incoming damage I would normally have to and the tank only had to keep 3 mobs off the healer instead of 5. Everyone followed a strict kill priority and the mobs went down like clockwork. There were no wipes. None. It was the smoothest HoR run I’ve ever done, and it was on my most undergeared healer with the most undergeared and unconfident tank.

      Crowd Control. Target Priorities. They’re what the military call “force multipliers”. I weep silent tears of frustration when I hear people say “Cc is for noobs”.

  5. Gx1080 says:

    FoS is faceroll now. But maybe is me, Mr. DK Frost tank who can keep aggro at distance. And the bosses aren’t too hard.

    PoS is harder. Garfrost and Ick go down when everybody understand the mechanics, but the mobs at the ramp are tough you need 2/3 of killorder, several cooldowns and CC for living through it. And the “holding aggro while run, run, run, because ice is falling down, down, down” cave gets everybody killed at the first attack or heal of anyone that isn’t the tank (Holding aggro on the move is hard).

    Tyrannus requieres Non-fail DPS or you die. Although with a decent, geared group we one-shot the place.

    In HoR you know easily if a group is going to make it on the first 4 waves. If the group wipes at the waves, forget it.

    • Calli says:

      I can’t 100% agree with you that even Forge of Souls is faceroll now, almost, but not quite. Let me explain what I mean. As an even semi-competent tank, yes it’s largely faceroll. Trying to keep aggro on everything is difficult, but if you can’t, the healer can always pick up the slack.

      For dps, if the tank’s aoe tanking, they usually pretty much aoe dps too, and if they pick up some aggro, well either the tank will notice and taunt or the healer will pick up the slack.

      Forge of Souls is absolute hell on healers. Not so bad on Druids, but an utter nightmare for anyone who can’t regen on the move. Priests in particular suffer nightmarish tortures in there.

      See, right after the first pair of guards at the entrance, everyone rushes off to grab and tank the first trash pack. No-one ever stops to finish off the disembodied skull that ALWAYS appears immediately after the first pull and ensures that not only is your healer low on mana because no-one waits for regen after buffs and priest buffs cost a LOT of mana, but the group arrives at the first trash pack on half health thanks to the skull exploding and the healer immediately has to start spamming costly aoe heals. Then one of the ranged mobs always aggros the healer and the poor sod then has to spam heal themself as well as the tank and any dps who can’t assist with whatever the tank has priority on.

      With the first pack down, no-one ever stops for mana, it’s straight off to the next pack, once again ignoring the skull that spawns on the next ramp so the group is never at 100% health and the healer is never not healing. I can just about put up with this on my druid as I have ridiculous amounts of regen and I can innervate myself on the move. On my Priest or Shaman it’s an absolute nightmare, and it’s that way precisely because everyone else thinks you can faceroll Forge of Souls.

      On the other hand, I love Pit of Saron on my priest, precisely because I can Shackle some of those really nasty mobs on the ramp and give myself a break that any of my other healers would just have to brute force their way through.

      I find a good tactic on Tyrannus is to get your strongest dps to nuke the bejesus out of him right from the start while he’s still mounted. On my mage I usually ask a warrior tank to give me vigilance then I start nuking, I can get him down to less than 90% before he dismounts, then the tank taunts and gets himself an aggro lead that no-one’s going to beat. Follow that up with Mirror Image and blow all your cooldowns and you’ve usually got the boss below 50% before he’s even capable of targetting me.

      • Gx1080 says:

        Hmm. Never thought about it that way, although I make a point on not pulling when there’s a skull and watching the healer’s mana. I have played a healer and, although I found it too passive for my taste, I know how it feels that people pull when you are drinking and/or low.

        And I think that Blizz hotfixed the exploit and Tyrannus’s health resets when he lands.

      • Ten'nen says:

        Pit of Saron on a paladin gives me nightmares, especially when everyone tries to AoE the ramp part down. Those mobs are some of the most difficult to hold aggro on and not let eveyone die, because that hellfire is a bitch of an AoE, but you have to have them close or they just stand afar and blow the hell out of whomever they please.

        Combined with the fact that so many players are lazy and not very bright, I’d rather heal HoR than PoS, tbh.

        I do agree though. HoR will roflstomp many groups. Even if you can somehow make it past the first stage, running from the Lich King is a DPS race, and sometimes, some people’s dps just isn’t enough. I did it the other day with a lock who was barely pulling 2.5k dps. The first time we tried it, I didn’t AoE and we couldn’t do it. The second time, I AoE’d, staying in my frost spec because it causes less threat. The third time, I switched to Arcane, and we made it to the last wave, and I decided to AoE because we weren’t killing them fast enough. Warrior tank couldn’t hold aggro from the healer (no AoE is really unlucky…) and some of them weren’t caught in my Trinket/AP/IV Blizzard doing 9k damage. The fourth time, I didn’t AoE at all and we still didn’t make it. Gave up after that.

        I was topping DPS even when I was frost, and I’m not amazingly geared. 4-part T9, a couple of 245 pieces, and a 251 ring. Everything else is 219 or 232. Sadness 😦

      • Calli says:

        Edit: This is in reply to Ten’nen, the comment and reply system on this template really blows. :p

        If anyone even catches me dreaming about trying to heal the new 5 mans on my paladin they better wake me up so I can apologise. There are some very talented Paladin healers out there who can do amazing things with Beacon of Light and a bandaid, but I’m not one of them.

        Your CC options on that ramp are pretty limited. You’ve pretty much got Shackle, Repentance and short duration stuns, and if you’ve got no Priest or Ret Pally along for the ride you’d better hope your tank can hold aggro on the lot and your dps have got the brains to interrupt that hellfire, because otherwise you’re in for a world of hurt. That ramp is easily the most brutal part of all three new instances and is probably the one spot where most groups for the Pit fall apart.

      • Kurnak says:

        Well, I’ve healed all the new instances on my pally. And I don’t do wonders with Beacon. I just put it on the most squishy char and let it there.
        HoR is a real nightmare on the mobs waves, the rest is pretty simple. And the ramp isn’t that hard on healing, as long as tank grabs aggro on both casters and move out of Circle of Frost. Even you can help by going melee range and casting Holy Wrath, stunning all mobs. It does wonders and your plate ensures your survivality.

      • Niadyth says:

        Would you say that mana based DPS are capable of mana regen that is nerf-worthy?

        When i used to play boomkin, if i specced down into intensity in the resto tree, as well as dreamstate, I’d practically never oom, in either heroic or raid groups.

        Now, my mage is a different story, somewhat. Arcane blows through mana like a train through a polystyrene wall, but with mana gems and evocation every 2 minutes, it’s not hard to keep up with an overenthusiastic tank in a heroic PoS.

        Not so for healers, however, who’s regen capabilities are, in my opinion, somewhat limited by the gear and cooldowns they have available to them. At the end of the day, if you ask me, the tank has a responsibility to be *aware* of the healers mana pool, just as much as the healer has a responsibility to cast smart and refill it. If a tank I’m healing through a heroic, or even lately, a normal dungeon (i’m levelling a resto/elemental shaman), jumps into a trash pack while i’m still drinking, after having asked for a mana break……… I let them die. Their repair bill, their problem. The smart ones will learn pretty fast that mana does indeed translate directly into heals, and heals translate directly into THEM NOT BEING DEAD.

      • Calli says:

        In response to Niadyth (because I can never tell where this reply system will place my response when I get more than a certain number of replies to a topic) an Arcane Mage can play with little to no mana issues, but it comes at the cost of sucky dps as I’m sure you know. A large part of knowing how to play effectively as Arcane is knowing how and when to throttle your dps output, which means throttling your mana usage and knowing when it’s safe to blow your Evocation cooldown. A Warlock’s never going to run out of mana as long as a healer has mana to spare, Hunters can regen mana very quickly at the expense of lowered dps while they’re doing it. I’m actually okay with the playstyle of Arcane, the ball is very firmly in our own court. Our dps and mana pools are entirely dependent on how we play, rather than on who we were grouped with as it was in The Burning Crusade.

        As for healers, I find I have mana issues on Aluriel, my Priest. She’s probably the healer I’m least comfortable playing, however. I recently ditched her Shadow offspec in favour of Discipline and I’m finding that much more my style to play than Holy. Not that I don’t like playing Holy, I just don’t think I’ve quite nailed how it should be done yet. Askara my Resto shaman very rarely has mana issues and only then when I take hits and forget to refresh water shield. Shinano, my Tree, may as well not have a mana bar for all the attention she needs to pay to it. Galadan, my Ret/Holy Paladin, I’m beginning to get more comfortable playing him as holy outside of raid environments and while I can clearly see his mana bar dropping I never seem to get to that “oh shit” moment with him. Alchemy and Endless Mana potions might have something to do with that, of course.

        As for teaching tanks the “hard way” to respect a healers’ mana bar… I hear you, sister! I do it on Aluriel but again mostly because I’m more self concious of her mana in the first place. But you’d be amazed how many tanks seem to think they’re invincible just because they outgear an instance by a tier or two. Ok, maybe you wouldn’t be amazed. :p

  6. lonomonkey says:

    I’ve been tanking HoR for the past few days for a neck piece and it’s starting to be really soul crushing. Most of the time it’s the dps who screws up everything and it’s getting really boring. Poor healers try to keep them alive but it distracts them from healing the tank and sometimes I simply die as the healer gets too busy. Heck, I’ve even blogged about it yesterday.

    Hang in there! I know I’ll try to, if anything this can only make me a better tank yes?

  7. Calli says:

    I feel your pain. Hopefully it’s getting a bit easier now you never get two mages or two rogues in the same trash wave anymore. With everyone grouped in the alcoves for Line of Sight, those Flamestrikes tend to sort out the idiots from the dps who know not to stand in fire (because it’s hot).

    Matter of fact, I read a very good post the other day about why standing in the alcoves is a very bad idea. Made a lot of sense when you read it through. I’ll try to find it and link to it.

  8. lonomonkey says:

    Yeah, I’ve been wondering about getting in the alcoves but not out of line of sight so I have a bit of breathing room to get the adds. By standing out of LoS if any mob resists or someone does too much agro too fast I don’t have the time to pick anything back up.

  9. Shatterhoof says:

    My main is a resto shaman, so I understand your sentiment about the new 5-mans. They all used to give me fits until I l2p resto and started using my full spellbook.

    FoS is all about the Chain Heal on the trash. There’s a lot of crazyness going on and being able to hit two or three players at once makes things much easier. It’s harder on the mana, so make sure Water Shield never drops off and ask LOUDLY for mana breaks. The spirit things after Bronjam used to make me weep until I started treating it like Black Knight phase 3, and just had everyone sit on the tank for CH spam. Mirror Soul requires competence from DPS, which I never trust, so now I just spam Lesser Healing Wave on whoever gets the debuff.

    In PoS, your totems are your best asset. Frost Resistance and Healing Stream make Garfrost’s aura totally manageable. Cleansing saves you from Ick’s nastiness and the HORRID dot that the ramp trash use. On those two packs, chain heal chain heal chain heal, and be ready with some NS-HWs for damage spikes on the tank. The last two trash packs before the cave benefit from Frost Resistance totem again, but go a lot smoother if your DPS can focus on the casters first.

    HoR is a combination of the above. I always keep Cleansing totem down, to deal with the poisons and other nastiness. The first boss is hardest on a resto shaman because the fear usually puts everyone out of range of CH bounces, and the despair debuff means your LHW won’t be able to get people up as quickly. The best strategy is to DPS as much as you can in the beginning, use Bloodlust early, and drop Fire Elemental at the end to help bolster the flagging DPS. Riptide-HW-HW is a good rotation if people get spread out too far.

    On the whole, the ICC dungeons seem to reward pre-casting a lot more than the reactive casting the other heroics require anymore. It’s nice to have more to do than just Earth Shield and Riptide though, I have to say.

    I don’t get it when DPS drop out of dungeons like Oculus or Old Kingdom, especially if the tank and healer are ok with it. They aren’t that hard any more, but apparently some people prefer the LFG queue than slogging through something like that.

    • Calli says:

      Absolutely, 100% agree with everything you said. After facerolling your way through the regular heroics it comes as a shock having to use every healing cooldown in your spellbook just to keep your head above water in Icecrown. Keeping people up on my shaman isn’t the issue, but as you noted, going oom is. And yes, you do have to scream for mana breaks. Going oom in a 5 man is such an alien experience, but these ain’t no normal 5 mans. Thanks for sharing your experiences, I’m sure I’m not the only one who’ll find the advice useful.

  10. Kurnak says:

    I’ve healed HoR with my pally and druid before the nerf and the difference was abyssal. If you got some aoe heals things are much easier. Still the worst part are the debuffs. Usually you’ll have 3 debuffed chars at the same time while the hps of the tank and another char whill be going down at full speed. Having a shaman drop a cleansing totem does wonders. The biggest problem I have is 2 of the debuffs are “green” ones, one a poison that sucks life like mad and the other is some kind of stun/debuff (don’t have time to check what’s doing) that doesn’t affect hitpoints, so it’s hard to distinguish them (just see which one causes healthbar to plummet down) and you are faced with the question of cleanse it or not, heal another char, etc. And you have no time to think about this. Sometimes I prefer to stop debuffign and just overheal all I can until I have a free gcd to throw that cleanse.
    Aside from the kill order, hiding in an alcove helps a lot so mobs come to you directly (and you don’t have these pesky mages and hunter at range distance, thus remaining untanked). And if you fight at the center (normal mode can be done there), be careful with that damn altar because it blocks los, if people is fighting behind it, you won’t be able to heal them.

  11. Calli says:

    The mobs’ aggro seems to be proximity based at first. Many times I’ve been crouched in the corner of an alcove and had “AGGRO” appear in big red letters just as the mobs spawn. If you’re tanking, standing IN line of sight and close to edge of the dias would seem to be the best policy if you do insist on using the alcove tactic.

    The problem with using the alcoves is that the Priests like to cast an aoe shadow explosion when they die, the Mages like to drop flamestrikes all over the place and the Riflemen love to drop frost traps. There’s not a lot of room in those alcoves to get away from the aoe, especially if there’s a frost trap down, and there almost always is.

    On the other hand, if you tank them in the entrance hall, they still all have to get past you to get to anyone else, but the ranged and healer have room to avoid mobs’ aoe and the ranged mobs don’t have to get close to open up on you because they can see you from where they spawn, meaning they can be CC’d well outside of Thunderclap/Death&decay range and stay cc’d.

    Of course, this does mean people have to actually use their cc abilities. A Ret paladin is a godsend in this place, not only can he aoe stun them because they’re all undead, he can fear them and put one totally out of the fight for a full minute, every minute, with Repentance. If your dps are the usual suspects more concerned with their position on the epeen meter than you know… surviving the fight, well at least you have more space to actually see who’s coming at you and who’s the biggest threat.

  12. Tamarind says:

    *hands up*

    I have to say, I’m the opposite, I *hate* healing those things. Most people seem to expect to, err, faceroll and then get pissy when they get facerolled right back. And they tend to take it out on their healers.

    I enjoy a challenge as much as the next person but usually they’re challenging in ways they don’t *have* to be, not, as you say, because of people respecting the content but because of them disrespecting it.

    The trash packs o’doom, for example. Please for the love of God, let me shackle. It’ll make healing through all that damage *slightly* less of a white-knuckle doom ride for me. But when I was ask to shackle, all I get are “lols” and “just heal thrus”.

    Gah!

    I’d love to do them properly wtih a good team of folks I liked and trusted though – I imagine they’d be a ball.

    • Calli says:

      I think it’s pretty safe to say that by the time you get to the ramp in the Pit you probably already know whether or not it’s going to be merely tough to heal or an absolute nightmare. I’ve been in groups where I’ve had to just spam every aoe heal in the book and gone completely oom on the first ramp pack, only to have the tank wait two heartbeats and charge the next with me on 10% mana. One group in particular stands out, right after wiping by chain pulling the second group before I could regen, we ran back and the tank pulled the second pack again while I was in the middle of buffing!

      It didn’t end well.

  13. deimonia says:

    I’m really happy they are bringing things like CC back into the new instances. I really enjoy this type of healing. I haven’t been in there since the nerf. I haven’t had a chance to play WoW too much. I started playing WoW last year, and really enjoyed CC while questing, was very disappointed when I went in Northrend dungeons to find this really wasn’t done as much. 😦

    Oh by the way, the title instantly made me think of Falco’s/i> song Rock me Amedeus. You’re never too old to play games, just check out Old Grandma Hardcore. http://oghc.blogspot.com/ her website hasn’t been updated in a while I hope she’s doing well.

  14. andre says:

    Sorry to disappoint, but i havent seen any CC or whatever skills in the new dungeons either. Shit must get a little harder then 4-5 mobs, 2 of them ranged that can be tanked by pretty anyone because of their lousy damage output. HoR is hardly at the level of magisters terrace and that was a little too easy too for being the most challenging 5-man content ever. Im not quite happy with all this, theres still no hard 5-man-content which sucks for people like me who that dont have a raiding guild but still looking to fight some hard fights. In FoS the only tricky things are the bosses, PoS is basterd easy untill after the 2nd boss and HoR mainly depends on the tanks skills, no real mechanics involved anywhere.

  15. Zobu says:

    When I do PoS on my shaman, I find Hex on the middle one (the humanoid) of the first two packs helps considerably, so long as the tank then pulls the rest away from it.

    I do have to let the tank know I’m going to Hex though, as there’s a good chance they’ll completely miss the Hexxed mob and run to the next pack. Kinda hard to see a tiny frog jumping around, especially if you’ve got enemy nameplates turned off.

  16. Kurnak says:

    Forgot to mention, I DO know where the title comes from… “Rock me Amadeus” by austrian singer Falco. Seesh! Am I that old already?

  17. gnomeaggedon says:

    You can’t seriously be telling me I have to quit WoW?

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